As my husband said to our son in the months preceding his 18th birthday. You don’t know anything about your sexuality or “gender” identity until you’ve actually fucked someone. Two years later, I can say that he’s solidly back to being a young man, and his virginity a relic. Do they all just need to get off their screens and go through the arduous process of getting laid?
Your thesis is correct. As a cis, heteronormative, straight White female, your daughter was almost at the top of the “oppressor class”. Now that she’s nonbinary (or whatever) and sorta neurodivergent, she’s one of the “oppressed”, and can sit back and enjoy life without carrying the heavy burden of guilt that’s being imposed on her, and having to perform ostentatious acts of penance (aka virtue signaling at her own expense).
The absurd burdens the progs have put upon our children — how does mass unhappiness and mental distress help expiate the sins of someone else’s ancestors, anyway? I can’t WAIT for the culture to change.
It might not change for a while, if ever. It has been the strongest way to disempower white people and American culture in general. It’s multifaceted bc it fucks up the children for life whether they actively participate or not, it tears the family unit apart, it keeps racism and classism alive and gives everyone an excuse to ravage the infrastructure — and replace it with something less traditional, less meaningful and more global. It’s the most psychologically manipulative tool I’ve seen in my lifetime.
Yup. I now believe that my LACK of tattoos is a sign of my rebellious nature (which has been a constant all my life). It’s a bit like how — suddenly — country music is cool, with new adherents like Post Malone, Lana Del Rey, Beyoncé, etc. There’s an insatiable appetite for the “new”.
I worry about what comes next. I was a goth/ska/punk in my day and still rock the alternative look. What teen rebellion comes after this?!?! My dad often pondered whether the next swing would be towards conservativism - the teens would say, “can you believe our parents tried drugs and had sex before marriage?” Why yes, this seems to be happening now with me finally, in my 50s, a mom and teacher who’s seen it all. But the next generation of teens on screens? What other reality based dysphoric destruction will they be onto next?
The ultimate rebellion these days is to publicly announce that one is no longer a Democrat. In any case, does it sound like Miss Miller is in the clear? Almost in the clear?
i wouldn't have been so encouraging with the LGBT stuff when she was in 5th/6th grade and it seemed so cute and innocent. i wouldn't have let her spend so much time with her friend who took puberty blockers and testosterone. and i would have said no to the name and pronoun change immediately. that's the broad strokes.
Delay the smartphone as much as possible (I think schools may finally be coming around to this). Limit internet access on other devices (especially Reddit, Tumblr, etc.). Watch out for interest in manga/anime. Be forthright about biological reality; try to make sure your kids learn about sex and related topics from you, awkward though that may be. Support gender nonconformity but not “gender-affirming care.” Don’t use wrong-sex (or non-sex) pronouns for anyone.
Thanks for the replies. This stuff is my sense of it too and things that we do. Ive been really interested in this question because I have an (adult) male friend who decided they were actually a woman several years ago. He came from a conservative family.
I wonder what the connection with manga/anime is? I know there is one because I’ve noticed that with friends, but I don’t get it.
I'm curious about him coming from a conservative family. I always joke I was ADAB, assigned democrat at birth. And how I wish I'd brought my kids up as republicans so we'd avoid this shit altogether since the vast majority of these trans identified kids come from liberal/progressive households. Can you specify the kind of family they were?
As to the anime/manga, I'm not the best person to field that question though i know it's a thing. And miss miller had a liking for that stuff too when she was as younger.
Well, they were catholic, I’m not sure about politics when younger though now the parents definitely support trump. They were kind of an odd family though, all maybe a bit on the spectrum, though that wasn’t on my radar then. And problems with focus, I don’t know how much of the ADD stuff I really believe, but they insist it’s a problem and the mom and my friend are definitely medicated for that. I think medicated with basically speed since the 90s. I would say the main thing is that they made an idol out of intelligence, if that makes sense? The mom stayed home and is super nice and sweet but sometimes I’d get the feeling the rest of the family would look down on her. Out of the 3 kids, none seem like they will have their own kids. One (a girl) went to med school late and I’m assuming has a lot of debt, one was married and they didn’t want kids and did this odd thing where he and his wife went around in a van rock climbing and doing other sports while having tech jobs and now they’re divorced anyway, and then there is my friend that believes he’s now a woman. He is/was a very sweet person, a bit odd and probably also on the spectrum though pretty friendly and sociable. I think he spent a lot of time in the basement on computers. No dating. Lots of computer/technology/device use (unsurprising since this is the dad’s, my friend’s, and his brother’s job). It’s all very sad to me.
This might seem like a kind of random comment but it popped in my head so I’ll say it. I read McGilchrist’s “The Master and His Emissary” and it’s really changed how I see things. I wonder if a lot of the weirdness we are seeing, including the trans phenomenon, is connected to over dominance by the left hemisphere of the brain? It’s massively oversimplifying what McGilchrist says, but the left hemisphere sees things as tools to be used and believes it can bend reality to its will (or something like that.) There seems to me to be some kind of connection there especially considering the correlation between autism and trans. I would think this was more true with my friend’s family than with your daughter. My outsider observation about young girls is just the stuff you say about wanting to fit in by not being basic. I was somewhat like that as a teen too, and had friends that were much more so like that that most definitely would have decided they were boys if that had been trendy in the 90s.
Japanese manga and anime has been fascinated with gender bending for awhile. It's a common theme. They used to call it a "trap" -- meaning, the character looked like a woman, but you find out later that it's a man -- or vice versa. "Traps" have been recognized by anime fans as an overused trope (I suspect that it's because the art style allowed you to easily make one gender look like another -- just add or delete a bow.) Teen girls these days seem to have a thing about androgynous boys, and Southeast Asian culture has embraced it - one example anime/manga, but another big one is K-Pop. Their stars bend genders. It is enough of a trend in that culture that China has addressed it legally - no androgynous/effeminate pop stars allowed in China lol!
I don’t know a lot about the anime/manga stuff because my kid wasn’t as into it as some of her friends. Paradoxically though it seems to contain a lot of both hyper-gender-stereotypical imagery AND androgynous/trans/NB imagery. It does seem to promote unrealistic body images.
For that matter, it seems like a lot of art and literature aimed at the YA crowd embraces gender-bending themes. At one point I was reading the sci-fi/fantasy books my daughter was reading and while in many ways they were quite compelling and well written, and conveyed good messages, they did tend to embrace gender fluidity. Even the Wings of Fire series at one point introduced a non-binary character, IIRC.
My daughter went through a quest to get diagnosed with adhd herself. When I read all the symptoms/traits, that diagnosis made perfect sense. I paid a lot of money out of pocket to have her evaluated (husband was not supportive of this) but she was in a state, which meant that I was in a state of panic fearing that she would hurt herself. We tried meds, they didn’t help so I pushed her doc for antidepressants (now I regret this knowing the side effects). They did help with her anxiety which allowed her to get through school without panic attacks but still she found her trans identity through it all. We never affirmed at home but our liberal school was more than happy to ignore our wishes. She’s out of school now, so away from that space and hasn’t brought up anything identity in months. My hypothesis is that some kids just want to feel/be special in some way. If you’re not going to be the prettiest, smartest, funniest, you can try to be the most: broken, oppressed, neurodivergent, rebellious, edgy and so on. I don’t know what my kids were being taught about critical theory in school, if anything. No idea what they were doing online. I don’t call myself a conservative (yet) although it seems that my ideas are aligning more with the right than the left these days. I’m not online much and rarely discuss politics with friends or family anymore, so I’m just trying to get through each day here in my blue neighborhood in a blue county in a red state. Thanks so much for your writing Mrs Miller, it’s been such a relief to know I’m not alone in this madness. Wishing you and yours: serenity courage and wisdom in the new year.
Happy Hannukah and Merry New Year to all the Mrs. Miller fans out there - and to Yourself, Mrs M! You‘re a brave lady for sharing so openly, give your family kudos for their openness too!
Aww thank you so much! I like that--Mrs Miller fans.... 🥰 Sometimes I think I'm just impulsive and dumb but I like your take much better. Happy Hanukkah and merry new year back atcha. 🩶💙🩶💙
I don’t have kids but I’ve witnessed a similar trajectory with my friend’s daughter. However, the daughter, now has a beard and excess weight. I don’t know much more because that friend no longer engages with me. I woke up to the nonsense as soon as the pronouns were indulged.
I hope that a new and harmless teenage rebellion develops from the next generation of kids.
Haha I will. I'm just relieved and grateful I wasn't piled on to take estrogen. For the record I have a thickened uterine lining so it's off limits. For anyone reading lol.
Ah. Different situation here. Estradiol patch after being thrown into surgical menopause, and that does seem to have relieved some of the most acute peri symptoms I was experiencing pre-op.
For the mood swings and hot flashes of perimenopause, black cohosh was my miracle drug. But I didn't know that you should only take it continuously for about six months at a time without taking a break. As I moved fully toward menopause, I suddenly started getting *more* frequent and heavy periods, instead of less (the direction things had been going). I looked into it, and it turned out that the black cohosh was the culprit. I stopped taking it (fortunately, the symptoms I was taking it for didn't surge back!), and the moon let go of me completely within six months thereafter.
A friend of mine has a daughter who took Testosterone for two years, then determined she was “non-binary” looking enough. Her boyfriend stuck with her throughout, but finally left her, in part because he didn’t think it made sense to be in a “gay” relationship with a woman. The levels of hell we are all put through to be perceived as “edgy”.
As my husband said to our son in the months preceding his 18th birthday. You don’t know anything about your sexuality or “gender” identity until you’ve actually fucked someone. Two years later, I can say that he’s solidly back to being a young man, and his virginity a relic. Do they all just need to get off their screens and go through the arduous process of getting laid?
my hunch is yes. but I can't say for sure on my end. my daughter remains very innocent. she also still uses he/they pronouns.
Your thesis is correct. As a cis, heteronormative, straight White female, your daughter was almost at the top of the “oppressor class”. Now that she’s nonbinary (or whatever) and sorta neurodivergent, she’s one of the “oppressed”, and can sit back and enjoy life without carrying the heavy burden of guilt that’s being imposed on her, and having to perform ostentatious acts of penance (aka virtue signaling at her own expense).
The absurd burdens the progs have put upon our children — how does mass unhappiness and mental distress help expiate the sins of someone else’s ancestors, anyway? I can’t WAIT for the culture to change.
It might not change for a while, if ever. It has been the strongest way to disempower white people and American culture in general. It’s multifaceted bc it fucks up the children for life whether they actively participate or not, it tears the family unit apart, it keeps racism and classism alive and gives everyone an excuse to ravage the infrastructure — and replace it with something less traditional, less meaningful and more global. It’s the most psychologically manipulative tool I’ve seen in my lifetime.
If you dig even deeper, it goes back to the UN.
I love that.
When everyone does this, it WILL become basic. Mark my words… it will become edgy to just be normal. Then she will embrace that.
that's how i feel as a fledgling conservative. like a real rebel. i hope you're right, or that she can just get tired of it and it fizzles out.
Everyone who fought to get trans flags everywhere aren't going to back down. It's going to take a huge effort to get them down, if we can ever.
Yup. I now believe that my LACK of tattoos is a sign of my rebellious nature (which has been a constant all my life). It’s a bit like how — suddenly — country music is cool, with new adherents like Post Malone, Lana Del Rey, Beyoncé, etc. There’s an insatiable appetite for the “new”.
my tats are so mainstream it is hilarious this world of ours.
I worry about what comes next. I was a goth/ska/punk in my day and still rock the alternative look. What teen rebellion comes after this?!?! My dad often pondered whether the next swing would be towards conservativism - the teens would say, “can you believe our parents tried drugs and had sex before marriage?” Why yes, this seems to be happening now with me finally, in my 50s, a mom and teacher who’s seen it all. But the next generation of teens on screens? What other reality based dysphoric destruction will they be onto next?
yup
The ultimate rebellion these days is to publicly announce that one is no longer a Democrat. In any case, does it sound like Miss Miller is in the clear? Almost in the clear?
count me rebellious. and i can't say for certain, but i'm cool with almost. thank you!
Great news. Praying for the same outcome for my 16-year-old two years hence.
prayers for you both.
What would you have done differently from the beginning? (Asking as a mother of young kids)
i wouldn't have been so encouraging with the LGBT stuff when she was in 5th/6th grade and it seemed so cute and innocent. i wouldn't have let her spend so much time with her friend who took puberty blockers and testosterone. and i would have said no to the name and pronoun change immediately. that's the broad strokes.
Delay the smartphone as much as possible (I think schools may finally be coming around to this). Limit internet access on other devices (especially Reddit, Tumblr, etc.). Watch out for interest in manga/anime. Be forthright about biological reality; try to make sure your kids learn about sex and related topics from you, awkward though that may be. Support gender nonconformity but not “gender-affirming care.” Don’t use wrong-sex (or non-sex) pronouns for anyone.
Oh yes big one. The screens. The phone. All of it actually. Well said.
Thanks for the replies. This stuff is my sense of it too and things that we do. Ive been really interested in this question because I have an (adult) male friend who decided they were actually a woman several years ago. He came from a conservative family.
I wonder what the connection with manga/anime is? I know there is one because I’ve noticed that with friends, but I don’t get it.
I'm curious about him coming from a conservative family. I always joke I was ADAB, assigned democrat at birth. And how I wish I'd brought my kids up as republicans so we'd avoid this shit altogether since the vast majority of these trans identified kids come from liberal/progressive households. Can you specify the kind of family they were?
As to the anime/manga, I'm not the best person to field that question though i know it's a thing. And miss miller had a liking for that stuff too when she was as younger.
Well, they were catholic, I’m not sure about politics when younger though now the parents definitely support trump. They were kind of an odd family though, all maybe a bit on the spectrum, though that wasn’t on my radar then. And problems with focus, I don’t know how much of the ADD stuff I really believe, but they insist it’s a problem and the mom and my friend are definitely medicated for that. I think medicated with basically speed since the 90s. I would say the main thing is that they made an idol out of intelligence, if that makes sense? The mom stayed home and is super nice and sweet but sometimes I’d get the feeling the rest of the family would look down on her. Out of the 3 kids, none seem like they will have their own kids. One (a girl) went to med school late and I’m assuming has a lot of debt, one was married and they didn’t want kids and did this odd thing where he and his wife went around in a van rock climbing and doing other sports while having tech jobs and now they’re divorced anyway, and then there is my friend that believes he’s now a woman. He is/was a very sweet person, a bit odd and probably also on the spectrum though pretty friendly and sociable. I think he spent a lot of time in the basement on computers. No dating. Lots of computer/technology/device use (unsurprising since this is the dad’s, my friend’s, and his brother’s job). It’s all very sad to me.
This might seem like a kind of random comment but it popped in my head so I’ll say it. I read McGilchrist’s “The Master and His Emissary” and it’s really changed how I see things. I wonder if a lot of the weirdness we are seeing, including the trans phenomenon, is connected to over dominance by the left hemisphere of the brain? It’s massively oversimplifying what McGilchrist says, but the left hemisphere sees things as tools to be used and believes it can bend reality to its will (or something like that.) There seems to me to be some kind of connection there especially considering the correlation between autism and trans. I would think this was more true with my friend’s family than with your daughter. My outsider observation about young girls is just the stuff you say about wanting to fit in by not being basic. I was somewhat like that as a teen too, and had friends that were much more so like that that most definitely would have decided they were boys if that had been trendy in the 90s.
Japanese manga and anime has been fascinated with gender bending for awhile. It's a common theme. They used to call it a "trap" -- meaning, the character looked like a woman, but you find out later that it's a man -- or vice versa. "Traps" have been recognized by anime fans as an overused trope (I suspect that it's because the art style allowed you to easily make one gender look like another -- just add or delete a bow.) Teen girls these days seem to have a thing about androgynous boys, and Southeast Asian culture has embraced it - one example anime/manga, but another big one is K-Pop. Their stars bend genders. It is enough of a trend in that culture that China has addressed it legally - no androgynous/effeminate pop stars allowed in China lol!
That is fascinating! Thank you!
I don’t know a lot about the anime/manga stuff because my kid wasn’t as into it as some of her friends. Paradoxically though it seems to contain a lot of both hyper-gender-stereotypical imagery AND androgynous/trans/NB imagery. It does seem to promote unrealistic body images.
For that matter, it seems like a lot of art and literature aimed at the YA crowd embraces gender-bending themes. At one point I was reading the sci-fi/fantasy books my daughter was reading and while in many ways they were quite compelling and well written, and conveyed good messages, they did tend to embrace gender fluidity. Even the Wings of Fire series at one point introduced a non-binary character, IIRC.
Exactly. That's how we got our son out of this cult. The future still is shaky, but I continue to have candid discussions.
A boyfriend for your daughter! Yay, a beautiful Christmas present for both you and her. Loved reading this. Merry Christmas Mrs. Miller! 🎄
thank you Elizabeth, you too!
My daughter went through a quest to get diagnosed with adhd herself. When I read all the symptoms/traits, that diagnosis made perfect sense. I paid a lot of money out of pocket to have her evaluated (husband was not supportive of this) but she was in a state, which meant that I was in a state of panic fearing that she would hurt herself. We tried meds, they didn’t help so I pushed her doc for antidepressants (now I regret this knowing the side effects). They did help with her anxiety which allowed her to get through school without panic attacks but still she found her trans identity through it all. We never affirmed at home but our liberal school was more than happy to ignore our wishes. She’s out of school now, so away from that space and hasn’t brought up anything identity in months. My hypothesis is that some kids just want to feel/be special in some way. If you’re not going to be the prettiest, smartest, funniest, you can try to be the most: broken, oppressed, neurodivergent, rebellious, edgy and so on. I don’t know what my kids were being taught about critical theory in school, if anything. No idea what they were doing online. I don’t call myself a conservative (yet) although it seems that my ideas are aligning more with the right than the left these days. I’m not online much and rarely discuss politics with friends or family anymore, so I’m just trying to get through each day here in my blue neighborhood in a blue county in a red state. Thanks so much for your writing Mrs Miller, it’s been such a relief to know I’m not alone in this madness. Wishing you and yours: serenity courage and wisdom in the new year.
Happy Hannukah and Merry New Year to all the Mrs. Miller fans out there - and to Yourself, Mrs M! You‘re a brave lady for sharing so openly, give your family kudos for their openness too!
Aww thank you so much! I like that--Mrs Miller fans.... 🥰 Sometimes I think I'm just impulsive and dumb but I like your take much better. Happy Hanukkah and merry new year back atcha. 🩶💙🩶💙
I've been told the same thing, that I am impulsive and dumb to speak up. I am told to go along with everything, be kind,shut up. Please help.
Thank you for this “then and now”!
I don’t have kids but I’ve witnessed a similar trajectory with my friend’s daughter. However, the daughter, now has a beard and excess weight. I don’t know much more because that friend no longer engages with me. I woke up to the nonsense as soon as the pronouns were indulged.
I hope that a new and harmless teenage rebellion develops from the next generation of kids.
From your lips to God's ears. That sounds awful with your friend's kid.
Such great news to hear her life boat has been blown back toward calmer, safer waters.
There was indeed someone listening to those prayers, so never stop sending them.
I hope the new year brings even more progress, but as you said, almost is good.
God Bless you and your crew!!
So. Many. Parallels. Uncanny but not surprising I suppose (swimming in the same water).
And please let me know if you find supplements that work.
Haha I will. I'm just relieved and grateful I wasn't piled on to take estrogen. For the record I have a thickened uterine lining so it's off limits. For anyone reading lol.
More than I thought I'd ever know about you Mrs M. 😂😂
Sounds rich and creamy! Did you use flour or corn starch to thicken yours?
Arrowroot from my paleo days.
Ah. Different situation here. Estradiol patch after being thrown into surgical menopause, and that does seem to have relieved some of the most acute peri symptoms I was experiencing pre-op.
For the mood swings and hot flashes of perimenopause, black cohosh was my miracle drug. But I didn't know that you should only take it continuously for about six months at a time without taking a break. As I moved fully toward menopause, I suddenly started getting *more* frequent and heavy periods, instead of less (the direction things had been going). I looked into it, and it turned out that the black cohosh was the culprit. I stopped taking it (fortunately, the symptoms I was taking it for didn't surge back!), and the moon let go of me completely within six months thereafter.
Black cohosh flies in and out of my orbit. Haven't tried it yet. Sounds kinda scary though. Thank you.
Does her boyfriend know that he’s gay because he’s with a gay man? Sorry for the snark I’m really very happy about this.
I understand. i believe he is onboard, but my hunch and hope is that they both know it's all bullshit but keep up appearances.
A friend of mine has a daughter who took Testosterone for two years, then determined she was “non-binary” looking enough. Her boyfriend stuck with her throughout, but finally left her, in part because he didn’t think it made sense to be in a “gay” relationship with a woman. The levels of hell we are all put through to be perceived as “edgy”.
Well testosterone effects aren’t reversible. She probably looked very masculine. I do understand why he left. She radically changed.
Oh this is good Mrs. Miller. Very very good. There is a light at the end of this blackest of black tunnels for you and your family. ❤️
Yay! Happy for you! All headed in the healthiest direction...
Terrific! As an aside, I highly recommend Cynthia Thurlow's (NP) YT channel for all things peri & menopause. She's excellent.
Thank you! Gonna check it out.
You are brave to tell the truth and love that girl. Not many are so courageous .
Thank you!