You’re talking about people with Cluster B personality disorders. The narcissists, borderlines, bi-polars, the unhinged self-entitled ones who have no insight, no empathy and are effectively non-functional in social settings. They may be inherently good folks who have been monumentally abused and messed up by crazy parents or circumstances. Sometimes they’re just assholes and, lucky for you, they go away when confronted.
The question is: how much wiggle room are you allowed to give yourself when dealing with assholes without becoming one yourself?
I haven’t read Josh Slocum in awhile but something told me to check in on him today because he’s an expert in this department, and I found this:
If I understand him correctly, and it may apply to your post today: sometimes it’s more important to say what needs to be said. You may feel like an asshole because you’re intrinsically moral and self-aware, perhaps overly so. But Josh is giving himself/you/us a pass because sometimes the message supersedes the medium. And of course, this applies in the public as well as the private sphere.
I just read a Note from Musings by Amir which dovetail nicely with your comment as to whether or not hard truths need to be spoken. Additionally I believe that the Cluster Bs overlap with what I call the so-o-o-omebody needs to do s-o-o-o-methi-i-i-ing!!!! screechers.
I am always interested to read Josh's perspective. I wish his courage to speak truth could be bottled and distributed to the masses, and I'm in complete sympathy with his frustration about the ease with which most people are cowed into silence, afraid to offend and sink into moral cowardice in the face of lies and manipulation. I stopped following him, though, because I see him shooting himself in the foot, constantly, with his spit-in-your-eye posture of refusing to engage any discussion of how to speak truth strategically. He doubles down every time on his right to be as rudely offensive as he feels like being, and blocks people who dare to question the value of hostility as the vehicle for effective truth-telling. He rejects as spinelessness the suggestion that truth will have a wider reach if it isn't laced with invective. He strikes me as investing as much energy into defending his right to incivility as defending the truth, so I decided to step back. He's a very clear writer with great perspective and tremendous moral courage; his powerful voice for truth would be a lot more shareable if he was willing to — yes — tone down the rage and acrimony.
Leah, thanks. I agree with everything you've written. I too stopped paying attention to Josh, and for the same reason. I learned a lot from him but had to move on. I thought of him today because Mrs. Miller's conflicted feelings reminded me of his perspective, and sure enough, he was right on point. Maybe some day his rage will be tempered. I understand rage, but it's not very productive.
Obviously I don’t know his heart, but in the snarling defensiveness I hear a wounded soul still working through the legacy of a Cluster B mother. My heart goes out to him. I pray he progresses in his healing to a deeper peace.
I really appreciate you spelling out the argument for keeping boundaries firm and well-guarded. Truly a righteous cause. And it's an apt message given the news out of the U.K. this weekend. In that case the a$$holes are the ones failing to guard the boundaries (borders) and doing the suppressing of grievances that has led to these predictable eruptions of violent rage, and then having the gall to follow it with gaslighting and mind games in the propaganda arena — equally predictable from a$$holes, I guess. But the awakening masses across the West really must learn to keep their heads if they hope to win the game. The stakes are well beyond preservation of one's own personal peace.
In the heat of arguments with my wife over gender she’s asked me to why I care about this issue so much. It’s baffling that I’d need to explain it. The cornerstone of why I care is I love my daughter so much and I don’t want her side tracked or damaged by something imaginary. Yet my wife loves our daughter too and is worried if we use language or ideas that accurately frame our daughter as female, then some other type of disaster will befall her.
It’s silly but it reminds me of Great Moments with Mr Lincoln: We all declare for liberty, yet in using the same words we do not mean the same thing.
Well put Mrs. M. I think lack of anger is as egregious as too much anger, though. People should be outraged now about our cultural predicament IMO. On that note I read a Note just before this on Musings by Amir. It is a very good read and I recommend it.
You’re talking about people with Cluster B personality disorders. The narcissists, borderlines, bi-polars, the unhinged self-entitled ones who have no insight, no empathy and are effectively non-functional in social settings. They may be inherently good folks who have been monumentally abused and messed up by crazy parents or circumstances. Sometimes they’re just assholes and, lucky for you, they go away when confronted.
The question is: how much wiggle room are you allowed to give yourself when dealing with assholes without becoming one yourself?
I haven’t read Josh Slocum in awhile but something told me to check in on him today because he’s an expert in this department, and I found this:
https://disaffectedpod.substack.com/p/no-i-will-not-take-the-high-road
If I understand him correctly, and it may apply to your post today: sometimes it’s more important to say what needs to be said. You may feel like an asshole because you’re intrinsically moral and self-aware, perhaps overly so. But Josh is giving himself/you/us a pass because sometimes the message supersedes the medium. And of course, this applies in the public as well as the private sphere.
I just read a Note from Musings by Amir which dovetail nicely with your comment as to whether or not hard truths need to be spoken. Additionally I believe that the Cluster Bs overlap with what I call the so-o-o-omebody needs to do s-o-o-o-methi-i-i-ing!!!! screechers.
Yes! that article influenced this post too. And--hilarious!
I am always interested to read Josh's perspective. I wish his courage to speak truth could be bottled and distributed to the masses, and I'm in complete sympathy with his frustration about the ease with which most people are cowed into silence, afraid to offend and sink into moral cowardice in the face of lies and manipulation. I stopped following him, though, because I see him shooting himself in the foot, constantly, with his spit-in-your-eye posture of refusing to engage any discussion of how to speak truth strategically. He doubles down every time on his right to be as rudely offensive as he feels like being, and blocks people who dare to question the value of hostility as the vehicle for effective truth-telling. He rejects as spinelessness the suggestion that truth will have a wider reach if it isn't laced with invective. He strikes me as investing as much energy into defending his right to incivility as defending the truth, so I decided to step back. He's a very clear writer with great perspective and tremendous moral courage; his powerful voice for truth would be a lot more shareable if he was willing to — yes — tone down the rage and acrimony.
Yes to all this. I thought about him when I was writing this. You summed up my feelings perfectly.
Leah, thanks. I agree with everything you've written. I too stopped paying attention to Josh, and for the same reason. I learned a lot from him but had to move on. I thought of him today because Mrs. Miller's conflicted feelings reminded me of his perspective, and sure enough, he was right on point. Maybe some day his rage will be tempered. I understand rage, but it's not very productive.
Obviously I don’t know his heart, but in the snarling defensiveness I hear a wounded soul still working through the legacy of a Cluster B mother. My heart goes out to him. I pray he progresses in his healing to a deeper peace.
Absolutely right. Joshua is a smart, good person who has been through hell. I wish him the same.
I love Josh!!
I really appreciate you spelling out the argument for keeping boundaries firm and well-guarded. Truly a righteous cause. And it's an apt message given the news out of the U.K. this weekend. In that case the a$$holes are the ones failing to guard the boundaries (borders) and doing the suppressing of grievances that has led to these predictable eruptions of violent rage, and then having the gall to follow it with gaslighting and mind games in the propaganda arena — equally predictable from a$$holes, I guess. But the awakening masses across the West really must learn to keep their heads if they hope to win the game. The stakes are well beyond preservation of one's own personal peace.
Yes.
In the heat of arguments with my wife over gender she’s asked me to why I care about this issue so much. It’s baffling that I’d need to explain it. The cornerstone of why I care is I love my daughter so much and I don’t want her side tracked or damaged by something imaginary. Yet my wife loves our daughter too and is worried if we use language or ideas that accurately frame our daughter as female, then some other type of disaster will befall her.
It’s silly but it reminds me of Great Moments with Mr Lincoln: We all declare for liberty, yet in using the same words we do not mean the same thing.
Looks like we are in the same boat, Zelig! The confusion is real. Welcome. And thank you for the comment.
Well put Mrs. M. I think lack of anger is as egregious as too much anger, though. People should be outraged now about our cultural predicament IMO. On that note I read a Note just before this on Musings by Amir. It is a very good read and I recommend it.
Thank you. Here's Amir's post--
https://open.substack.com/pub/amirpars/p/farewell-sweden-my-beloved-country?r=9q8wg&utm_medium=ios
Thank you thank you thank you.
It's my pleasure, Toni!
I hear you loud and clear.
Also, I read your piece that you linked to above, the post from July 2023. Holy shit.
Thank you for posting your insides on the outside.
Thank you so much. That's my brand lol. Soon to be paywalled for mental and physical health.
This is like when someone cuts in line, and you call them on it, and you’re the asshole
Yes!!! 🙌🏼